Kevin M. Folta had asked earlier if I would post some peer-reviewed studies proving that vaccines are harmful. I recommend that everyone print/copy them for their own personal records. I do know that truthful information has a way of disappearing off the internet.
To view these studies, please click here.
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7 comments:
Good try, I appreciate the effort. I would give this a lot more credibility if it wasn't posted on a government conspiracy website, but that's okay. Do you also acknowledge this websites claims that the US government took down the World Trade Center?
I'll dig into this soon and we'll talk about your list. A spot check gives several red flags. I hope that you think about this with me and I'll help you understand a few tenets of real science and how research works.
First, there are no articles past 1998. This means two things. First, one might interpret it as vaccines are perfectly safe for the last 11 years because there are no scholarly articles to support your point. More likely, the other reports were published and the research track ended. It happens all the time. An idea starts with a rare case or exception, a small study, etc, then when proper controls and numbers are involved there is no experimental effect- no more publications.
The most recent paper in 1998 was at least partially retracted
Murch SH, Anthony A, Casson DH, Malik M, Berelowitz M, Dhillon AP, Thomson MA, Valentine A, Davies SE, Walker-Smith JA. Lancet. 2004 Mar 6;363(9411):750. To be honest, if you are going to post you "evidence" you should also post when it was repealed.
Finally, the fact that most of the articles come from the 60's and 70's shows that science works. Let's assume that all of them are stellar controlled clinical trials with large numbers of participants published in the best journals (they are not, but let's pretend). The problems identified could be addressed, adjustments made and safety achieved. This interpretation would be consistent with the fact that as time goes on you see fewer and fewer negative indications in the scholarly literature.
You have made a common mistake and that's okay- it is easy to do. You have attempted to interpret scientific findings from a list of published work without considering the quality and follow-through on the studies. Good science grows. One paper turns into 10 and then 1000. Those that die on the vine usually are spot phenomena that even the authors see as wrong in retrospect.
Let's keep the dialogue open. I'll address a few studies specifically to illustrate the point above. Thanks.
Hello again Kevin. I understand that you are a scientist studying genetics? So, tell me, where exactly do you believe man came from? I'm curious to hear your response. Also, if you could clarify why we have so many more genetic disorders these days then we did say 60 years ago (before the mass vaccination program began), that would be great too.
As far as your question involving the World Trade Center goes....my question to you would be this....how on Earth could a nation advanced as ours allow not only terrorists to hijack our planes, but also allow them to be schooled here in the U.S. as well? Hmmm....I'm not a conspiracy nut. Though, if you would prefer to call me that, it's your choice. I'm not insulted at all. I'm a realist.
As far as your question about no articles past 1998 goes....I do understand the implications. I also want to point out that the formulas used in each vaccine these days are changed every few years now. Maybe you were not aware of this alarming fact? Honestly, why is that do you think? I would think that this would make it awfully difficult to study them if they are changed out every few years. Also, why after all these years is the warning still on them from the manufacturers that they don't know if they cause cancer, alter our DNA, or impair our fertility? Why don't they know? Why haven't they done studies to see?
Yes, Autism is triggered by vaccines and it involves a lot more than the toxic chemicals that are used. I will be elaborating on that in the next week or so. In the meantime, I encourage you to read "Vaccine Safety Manual" by Neil Z. Miller and "Fear of the Invisible" by Janine Roberts.
The predisposition of Autism is definitely in the genes. I won't argue with that one. It is not the chemicals that trigger it either (yes, they add fuel to the fire).....it is something far more sinister and totally overlooked. Again, I will be posting this info soon...
Thanks Dawn. I appreciate your thoughtful response. Seriously. I don't claim to know all the answers, but I am absolutely 100% beholden to evidence.
I'll jump through your questions in short style so that I can hit them all. Sorry for the brevity, but we can flush out sticking point later. I hope the Q&A format is okay.
Dawn: I understand that you are a scientist studying genetics?
KF: Sort of. I use genetics as a tool along with genomics, molecular biology and biochemistry. If you had to put a label on me I'm a molecular physiologist.
Dawn: So, tell me, where exactly do you believe man came from? I'm curious to hear your response.
KF: I follow the fossil and molecular evidence. Current thinking is that Homo sapiens descended from Homo heidlerbergensis about 100,000 y.a..
Dawn: Also, if you could clarify why we have so many more genetic disorders these days then we did say 60 years ago (before the mass vaccination program began), that would be great too.
Kevin: Two reasons. 60 years ago the life expectancy was 50 years old for men, a little longer for women. People died from heart attacks, strokes, polio, measles, smallpox, pneumonia, whooping cough, and a number of other diseases. Medicine did not afford us the lifespan for degenerative disorders to present. Cancers were relatively rare because people didn't live long enough to get them. You refer to "genetic disorders" specifically. Unfortunately those born with severe genetic deficiencies didn't live to full term, let alone through childhood. Disease killed many kids before they even made it to 14.
Dawn: WTC...how on Earth could a nation advanced as ours allow not only terrorists to hijack our planes, but also allow them to be schooled here in the U.S. as well? Hmmm....I'm not a conspiracy nut. Though, if you would prefer to call me that, it's your choice. I'm not insulted at all. I'm a realist.
KF: It is strange, I agree. But until there's evidence to indicate this then I have to believe the evidence we have. If anyone had conclusive proof it would be an amazing story!
Dawn: (Vaccines changing formuals) Maybe you were not aware of this alarming fact?
KF: Just like your beta VCR turned VHS and DVD, medical products change. Each change is met with incredible scrutiny. Some changes have occurred to placate the request of anti-Vax concerns, like the removal of thimerisol. All stages are well studied prior to deployment. They have to be. Look at the huge flack that a company like Pfizer went through when there were a few confirmed problems with Celebrex!! Wow!
More to come in next run.. out of space.
Continued....
Dawn: I would think that this would make it awfully difficult to study them if they are changed out every few years.
KF: It is no big deal. Probably the biggest changes are adjuvants that allow them to store better and serve more people.
Dawn: Also, why after all these years is the warning still on them from the manufacturers that they don't know if they cause cancer, alter our DNA, or impair our fertility? Why don't they know? Why haven't they done studies to see?
kf: I don't know of this warning so I'll have to investigate. I think the problem is a question of how science and scientists communicate. We can never say that vaccines are safe. We can't say that milk, water, organic produce, anything is safe. All we can honestly say is that there is no reproducible, independently verifiable evidence of harm. That sounds so wishy-washy doesn't it? But that's the truth. You can never prove that anything is safe- you only can show that there is harm.
Dawn: Yes, Autism is triggered by vaccines and it involves a lot more than the toxic chemicals that are used.
kf: Unfortunately hundreds of large, controlled trials completely disagree with you. There is no statistical link between vaccine and autism. The scientist that found it would be world famous if they found it. Many look. It just does not happen in careful studies.
Dawn: I will be elaborating on that in the next week or so.
kf: I look forward to it.
Dawn: In the meantime, I encourage you to read "Vaccine Safety Manual" by Neil Z. Miller and "Fear of the Invisible" by Janine Roberts.
KF: Dawn, I don't care about someone's opinion. Many people believe in gobblins, UFOs, Bigfoot, etc. It does not make it true. We have to rely on evidence. Again, if either of these authors could establish a sound reproducible link, they would be held up as amazing people that changed medicine. The hard evidence is not there.
Dawn: The predisposition of Autism is definitely in the genes. I won't argue with that one. It is not the chemicals that trigger it either (yes, they add fuel to the fire).....it is something far more sinister and totally overlooked. Again, I will be posting this info soon...
kf: Okay, but you will need to define what "it" is. Science sure doesn't know, and if you do you should apply for the Nobel Prize. I'm not being a smartass. It is just that many scientists dedicate their lives to solving autism and would love to have a simple solution. You are looking at a complex of genetic and environmental variables that present themselves as a spectrum of symptoms. It is not an easy question.
Thanks for your time. kevin
Hi again Kevin,
I have to admit. This is fun. I apologize if the answers are not in order.
Ok. You had stated that current "thinking" is that man descended from Homo heidlerbergensis. Why exactly then are our children being taught in public school that man descended from "ape"? Believe me, this question that I am posing does in fact, tie into the Vaccine/Autism connection. Are Homo heidlerbergensis considered part "ape"?
I have to disagree with you that vaccines/modern medicine are responsible for saving lives. In fact, just the opposite is true. Also, the World Health Organization was quoted on the record as stating that disease was not eradicated due to vaccines, but by sanitation methods alone.
Vaccines are actually not studied well prior to their release. The Hep B was studied for all of 5 days before it received its approval. The public "is" considered the final test. Regarding the hundreds of large "controlled" Autism studies - these were all carefully manipulated. Only 2 shots were studied also - not the entire schedule. The studies also did not take into consideration the genetic predispostion factors either...this was not an "accident". It was intentional.
If my research is correct, we are about to witness the biggest explosion in Autism ever simply by nursing mothers accepting the MMR vaccine after delivery. It won't matter if their baby is vaccinated or not. We shall see if I am correct.
Regarding the books that I recommended - these are fabulous books with tons of references so that you may further investigate. The "Vaccine Safety Manual" alone has over 1,000 sources of info derived from the CDC, WHO, FDA, countless peer-reviewed medical journals, etc. I am not kidding you. They are both worth reading.
About the disclaimer that is on every vaccine. Here is an example on page 12 - Section 13.1
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_infanrix.pdf
To look up the others go here:
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
After looking up these package inserts, you also must ask yourself why everyone - infant through adult receives the same standard dose - .5 ml. To see a clear example that I know off the top of my head, look up the dosing instructions for Varivax. It reads that a 12 mo. old baby will receive the same .5 ml dose as an adult. What is wrong with this picture? How can a 20 lb (give or take a few pounds) baby receive the same exact amount as possibly a 250+ lb adult?? It's just crazy in my opinion. A lot of information can be derived by simply reading the vaccine literature and digging through the CDC's own reported info. Some scary stuff I'll tell ya.
Dawn,
I'm glad that you brought the human origins thing into this because it helps frame where you are coming from. Humans did not come from apes. Period. It shows that you do not understand the substantiated science of evolution. That's okay, very few do. Humans and apes share a common primate ancestor and each evolved independently from there.
Your point about vaccines having nothing to do with human health is certainly preposterous. It is true that widespread vaccination coincided with societal changes in hygiene and nutrition, at least in the USA, so vaccines are part of the picture. We are doing the experiment now as some choose not to vaccinate. Nutrition and hygiene stay the same, measles rates rise. Not a formal test, but pretty compelling relationship.
I have to run to catch a plane so I'll address your other thoughts later. I hope you see that I'm coming at this as an educator and scientist. I'd like to help you understand how science works and what good research is.
It is an important topic.
I'll leave you with one quick thought. IF there was a real link between vaccines and illness, why doesn't someone show it with evidence? All of the large, controlled trials fail to show this association.
IF what you say is true, then the scientist that publishes that data will be one of the most famous of all time! I'd love to be the author of that work!
The problem is that it can't be published because the real data don't support that conclusion.
Real science has no bias. We perform careful tests and report the results. Most are not very exciting. If there was a real link between mass disorders and vaccines it would be one of the hugest medical stories of all time- but it just isn't supported by the data.
I hope you understand. Have a good day and I'll get back online late tonight.
Kevin,
I apologize. I was away for the weekend.
Do you have proof that we share a common primate ancestor? Or is it just an assumption?
You have to ask yourself who is responsible for these "large, controlled" studies on vaccines. Also, ask yourself why they are not studied long-term. Why aren't they? Why do we have an Injury Compensation Program to pay in the event of an injury? Why aren't Vaccine Manufacturers liable anymore?
Most of these diseases for which we vaccinate against were pretty much eradicated prior to the vaccines coming on the market. Vaccines are what brought them back to our society. The CDC's own reported statistics before/after each vaccine came out are proof of this. Not only that, but the CDC paints an ugly portrait that these diseases must be feared. In reality, this organization is deceiving the public with their 3rd world country statistics regarding "risks".
Plenty of doctors, scientists, and nurses have spoken out against vaccines only to have their names tarnished and careers ruined.
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